# 1 - Happy, healthy sober
In this week's episode:
A talk with Janey Lee Grace
Janey is a BBC radio presenter, author of five books including most recently, Happy Healthy Sober - Ditch the Booze and Take Control of Your Life. She runs The Sober Club, a community for the sober and sober curious focusing on optimum health and wellbeing. Janey is over three years sober which she talks about in her TEDx talk, Sobriety Rocks - Who Knew! I talk with Janey about a non-judgemental approach to challenging your relationship with alcohol, the link with anxiety and depression, and why it's best not to wait till you're at rock bottom to ditch the booze and live your best life. You can find out more about Janey’s work at www.thesoberclub.com
Episode 1 Sun, 6/13 2:02PM 34:50 SUMMARY KEYWORDS alcohol, people, drinking, drink, sober, glass, booze, sobriety, absolutely, bit, janey, ritual, needing, feeling, talk, day, called, addictive, stop, book 00:00 Hey age sisters, just a quick heads up. This is our very first podcast episode. And my audio sounds a tiny bit tinny, but rest assured our fantastic guest Janey Lee Grace sounds amazing. Enjoy. 00:30 Hey everyone, and welcome to the age sister podcast. I'm your host, Kate Milne. And today we're going to be talking about a really important health issue for women in midlife, we're going to be talking about alcohol use and sobriety. So I'm joined by Janey Lee Grace Janey is a BBC radio presenter. She's also the author of five books, including the new happy, healthy, sober with that great tagline, ditch the booze and take control of your life. Janey also runs the sober Club, which is a community for the sober and sober curious where they focus on optimal health and well being. Janey is also a TEDx speaker, and she gave this fantastic talk that I highly recommend going and checking out called sobriety rocks. And Janey herself is over three years sober. Welcome, Janey. Thank you, thank you so much for inviting me. I really appreciate it. 01:31 Oh, so great to have you here. So I wanted to ask you just maybe get tell us a little bit about your journey, and just how you came to doing what you're doing today? 01:42 Sure, well, I should probably start by saying I didn't ever have a rock bottom moment. And I think when you start talking about alcohol, everyone assumes that that must have meant that you were in the gutter. And you know, needing rehabilitation. And that most certainly was not the case. In Episode 1 Page 1 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.aicertainly in the UK, there's this kind of idea that there are two types of drinkers. There are those who are absolutely at rock bottom, needing, you know, needing help clinically dependent, needing help. And then there's everyone else, just happy social drinkers who every now and then can't hold their beer. But actually, the reality is very different. And we now know the term is gray area drinkers. And that's the majority of people. In fact, it's people who drink more than they want to, they're not at rock bottom, they still function just fine. They hold down jobs, and they get on with their life. But many of them just like me wake up every single day at 3am hating themselves, or whatever time. And that was my story. I was kind of Queen of holistic wellbeing. Here's the irony, you know, right here that I was. I've been working in this kind of arena of natural health and wellbeing for years, I've written four books on the topic and done countless talks, and I don't run a website and I'm Queen of natural health. And yet there I was, you know, boozing every single day, I mean, every day, and stepping around this kind of massive elephant in the room. So something had to change. And it took a long, long time, before I realized that alcohol was the issue. I tried every other thing imaginable, every therapy going every treatment going, Oh, I blamed it on absolutely everything. My, my dis ease, if you like my, my, the fact that I was overweight, the fact that I was bloated, miserable, anxious, you know, stress, just all of these things I put down to just getting older and just the way it is. And I just tried every therapy, every diet going everything. But as I say, you know, in my book, if only someone had just told me how freakin fantastic It is to be sober. I've done that a lot earlier. But most people don't talk about that. They they they consider that if you if you rock up to a doctor in the UK or a therapist or practitioner, and you are brave enough to tell them that you're a little bit worried about your drinking? Usually the answer will be well, sounds pretty normal few drinks a night. Sounds normal, just have an alcohol free day. And that's what I was told for years, years and years and years. And that kept me stuck in the alcohol trap. 04:23 Why do you think that it's such a taboo subject, that it's the last thing we want to go to when we think about our health? 04:31 Well, I think that it's because it's so normalized in our culture. It's the societal glue that sticks everything together. And certainly for women, you know, we've kind of been brought along for the ride for a good number of years so that it's infiltrated every bit of our world. So, you know, if you're a young mom and you want to meet other mums, you know play dates are stuck together with with alcohol, you know, sports events, ever thing is stuck with alcohol commiseration celebrations. I tried to buy a birthday card for my 21 year old son. I mean, there was not one on the shelves that didn't have a picture of, of alcohol of a birthday card, but God say. So it's because it's everywhere in our society because it's legal. Because it's, you know, there's that phrase isn't there, alcohol is Episode 1 Page 2 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.aithe only drug you have to justify not taking. So you are seen as the odd one out if you don't drink. I mean, fortunately, the tide is turning, you know, we can talk about that later. The tide is definitely turning. But for many years, you were seen as the odd one out, you were seen as something wrong with you. If you stop drinking, when you stop smoking, everyone goes, Wow, well, don't you that's so so cool. But if you stop drinking people say, the deer how bad did it get? How awful for you that? You can't just have one? I can just have one? What a shame. You can't just have one? Well, of course, now I would say Why the hell would I want one? Why would I want any amount of completely toxic liquid? Because let's not sugarcoat it is, you know, it is a drug. I mean, in fact, it's the number one most harmful drug. And that's been proven when you take into account all other factors. So not just harm to the individual, but to the economy and the and the, you know, the health scene and relationships and everything else. So, you know, we've we've all been, we've all been brainwashed, and I was absolutely bought into that we've all got, we have those kind of booze goggles on there's rose colored spectacles that make us think that at the end of a busy day when we're stressed and anxious, alcohol is the answer. 06:34 So true. Do you think there's something to be said about what people can't see on the other side of sobriety? Could you maybe tell me about what are some of the myths about sobriety? 06:47 This is such a great question, because it's what keeps people stuck. You see, for years and years, if I thought about stopping drinking, Well, number one, it was a lot harder than I thought it was going to be I tried many times, I couldn't understand why. In the middle of the night, when I got this voice in my head telling me This has to stop it's not authentic with who you are, you must stop this now, I would always sort of vow to myself that that's it, you know, I'm stopping drinking, by six o'clock the next night, you know, the voice of the wine, which was in my head saying, Oh, go on, just have one, it will be good, you know. And of course, then, you know, it's actually very, very difficult if you if your mindset isn't in the right place to just stop very difficult, because our cause addictive, because all the associations that we have with it. So you know, the myths are that when you stop drinking, you will be boring, you know, sober anagram of bores, it could not be further from the truth. It's it's drunk people that are boring, ever noticed how often they say the same thing over and over, you know, slur their words and etc. So people think they're going to be boring, people get concerned that they'll never that they'll lose their friendships, that they won't be able to, you know, have fun with friends again. And again, that's just, it's a really interesting thing, this sort of concern of the sober shamers, if you know, we sometimes call them, the actual reality is that most people, if they really are your friends, after the initial, perhaps surprise or shock, will probably salute you and may even share with you that they'd really quite like to do it too. But having said that, there may be some friendships that do fall by the wayside. Because if Episode 1 Page 3 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.aiyou were only ever drinking buddies, and you had nothing in common, then it's going to be tough. It is going to be tough. But it's nothing to be afraid of. Because, you know, this lovely phrase, and I don't know the exact words, but it's something like you know, as you as you as you grow, the people that don't grow with you will just naturally fall away, you won't have to agonize over how you push them off, they'll just naturally fall away. And I really think that's true. I think, you know, once you once you stop drinking, literally the world opens up for you. And there are so many benefits. And it's not just your skin's clear and your hair's better well locked down here. Not withstanding. You know, it's not just the obvious things. It's so much one that year on year on year, so much more than that. So you do actually blossom in so many ways. And yeah, there might be some relationships that don't come along for the ride, but mostly they do. 09:27 Yeah, I wonder sometimes about being asked this before because I've had long periods of sobriety, because I'm a runner, so I take time off to do events. And sometimes people will say to me, Well, how do you punctuate the week? And I think about this a lot during the pandemic, how are people are waiting the week are they using alcohol to say, okay, it's now the weekend and that's different than what I've been doing for the last five days. 09:59 Yeah, That's very good point. And and you're absolutely right people use alcohol. I mean, it's incredible, isn't it, how we think that this toxic liquid in the glass is going to be the thing that makes us feel completely relaxed? Oh, unless we want to feel really perked up and confident, in which case, apparently it can do that too. Funny that right? Of course, it does none of those things. What it does is is is our associations and our associations, which are very deep rooted are that, you know, alcohol is, is what makes us feel glamorous, or chilled or relaxed or happy or grown up or time away from the kids, if we're busy parents, or whatever, it might be all the associations. And when we reach for drink, we're not really reaching for drink, it's not the alcohol we want, we're reaching for the feeling. So if we can find out what the feeling is, and actually challenge ourselves as to what is the feeling, we can go after that in a far healthier way. Of course, it's a lovely idea to, to put something in place that didn't see your end of your working day, start of your weekend or whatever. But there are way healthier ways to do it that actually are self care. I used to think my glasses seven on with self care, or one or two or three. But it's so was not it. That was it was actually self harm. You know, and most people who are drinkers that are actually very good at taking care of themselves. You know, certainly when I was drinking, I did not like myself very much at all, you know, very low self esteem, because you're drinking all the time, it's very difficult to, to really equate that with with self love and self esteem. Episode 1 Page 4 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.ai11:39 Absolutely. I'm wondering if you worry at all about the pandemic, and the level of drinking that's going on? 11:48 Yeah. Oh, massively. Yeah, it's been hit. It's been really, really difficult. In the UK, a lot of people have. I mean, the drinking has ramped up massively. I haven't actually seen recent studies. But I do know that it's, it's ramped up massively people have started drinking earlier in the day. And then, you know, there's, there's no, there's no rules that are around it, they haven't bothered to put their own rules around it anymore. So it is it is really worrying. What's also worrying is that, you know, I run the sober club, we have a, you know, community of people who've, who are looking to get healthy, and it's underpinned by this sobriety, and of course, people are at different levels. But there's been lots of people who, you know, we kind of didn't hear from them. And then it's like, okay, what's going on, and then they come back, and they say, Well, I, I was doing so well, I did a few months sober, and I was feeling fantastic. And then the pandemic hit the anxiety, I'm having to homeschool my kids and everything else. And until I went back to it. So it has been, yeah, it's been a terrible time for that. On the other hand, though, there have been some people who've used that time, to, to, you know, to focus on their own well being. And a few of the seven club members have used this time to properly ditch the booze properly, start some, you know, put some new neural pathways in place and start to create some, some different life things for themselves, really. And that's been amazing to see to me. 13:22 I love this idea that sort of a bit more of solidity around sobriety, the way that you talk about the sober curious, for instance, it seems to me like the younger generation of people, maybe, you know, kids, sort of 18 to 25 have a different approach to alcohol. I noticed in your book that you gave a dedication to your kids, and it made me think, how do you speak to your kids about alcohol? What do you recommend to them about the use of alcohol? Or do you? Do you recommend that they remain completely sober? 14:05 Yeah, I said, it's a really interesting one. And I don't actually think there is a definitive on this, it has to be, you know, it has to fit your family. And of course, you know, who am I to say this, you know, I had years of being a parent drinking. I mean, that literally is My only regret, I only have one regret. And that is I didn't do this sooner. I so wish I could have been there, you know, properly present for the Bedtime Stories rather than wanting to, you know, go and go and get a glass of Episode 1 Page 5 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.aiwine. I hate that. So, you know, I've they've seen me drink too much, obviously, for years, that kids are pretty resilient. I do believe that, but but how do we deal? How do we deal with it? Well, you know, I think the best thing you can do is lead by example. It really is that modeling of behavior, and also having open discussions about stuff. I think when it's secretive, then it really becomes a problem. So So I think bringing it out into the open as early as possible with with with kids is the answer. I did this great interview with a guy called Professor Eric sigman, who is a American guy, but he lives in the UK. And and he was saying, you know, that's one of the things that they have right in the States. And I don't know about Canada, but in the States, you have to be 21, before you can legally buy alcohol in a bar. Now, because that's not the same in the UK, when he was saying, well, that's, that's the exact right age, because until we're 2122, our brains are not fully full. So he said, you know, if nothing else, make sure that your young people realize that, you know, because there is an element of Okay, well, maybe I've chosen to do it, but hey, you know, what, my brain is fully formed, yours isn't that kind of factual piece. And, you know, he talks about, he does lots of work in schools. And he talks about it, you know, a little bit like, you know, the way he talks about kids using computers for hours on end, and, you know, electromagnetic frequencies and stuff. It's a bit like sun exposure, you can have too much, right. And so, you know, I think there are some kind of factual pieces that it's a really good idea to make sure kids understand. And then after that, the best thing is, is just a model that behavior. And there's no doubt about it, if they see you drinking every single day, of course, they think it's completely normal and reasonable. But you know, the thing is, some people have gotten off switch. Alright, I am not saying that I believe in prohibition. I'm not saying that, you know, I'm really not, I would just love it to be as normal to choose not to drink as to choose to drink, rather than the bizarre state of affairs we have now whereby you are odd. If you choose not to drink, I'd like it to be entirely equal. And you are right. You know, a lot of young people out there are a lot brighter than I was. When I was their age, a lot of millennials are choosing not to drink at all. And many young people are mindful, they're mindful drinkers, you know, it's that expression. And I think part of the reason is because they do have much more concept of wellness than we than we did when we were their age of well being. I've taken responsibility, definitely the mental health piece comes in there. A lot of young people have caught sight much quicker than we have of the link between alcohol and anxiety. And thank God, you know, that one generation is because our certainly didn't. But you know, that needs to be addressed. And and also why waste all that money is expensive. For God's sake, why would you list literally throw away that that money, so I think for those reasons, they are more conscious, and, and that definitely helps. 17:55 I love that idea of modeling the behavior, you know, because I think a lot of us grew up with parents that, you know, drinking was complete, yeah, realized. And it was just part of the culture. And so it becomes those habitual things, like punctuating the week with a drink. Episode 1 Page 6 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.ai18:11 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I think, you know, we need to, we need to, sort of encourage young people and, and kids to, to embrace their emotions to accept their emotions. None of us are very good at this, you know, most of us are kind of emotionally mature, really, because if we started drinking that night, late teens or early 20s, every single goddamn life experience has been done through the lens of booze. You know, when I think back, my, you know, the first time my heart was broken, you know, everything, everything, that someone's death, you go and drink, you know, a wedding, you go and drink, it's just, it's everything. Every time you feel really anxious or worried or frightened, you reach for drink, every time you're celebrating something wonderful, you reach for a drink. So we've we never really get used to just accepting our emotions and being able to be with our emotions. And once you stop drinking, you have to, I mean, that sounds really terrifying. But actually, the reality is, you become much more resilient, much more resilient, so that you can actually accept Okay, you know, what, I am feeling massively stressed here, or massively anxious, and so Okay, so Okay, let's have a look at it. Let's see what it's trying to bring me. Let's see what I can do to deal with that, or do I need support? You know, there's always there's always another way, the answer is never, you know, oh, I feel anything other than perfectly fine. Reach for a drink. 19:42 What do you think about I love the way that you talk about alcohol in such great terms, that it is a toxic substance that we're we're taking this material into our body that's essentially poisonous. What kind of reception do you get when you talk about alcohol? That way? 20:02 Well, I mean, my approach is I'm completely non judgmental, because I'm absolutely not telling anyone they shouldn't drink. If you're, you know, the question that I always ask people, and this is how I started my TED talk was, I try and encourage people to ask themselves, could my life be better, physically and emotionally without the booze? Now, for some people, the answer is, No, I'm good. And I totally 100% respect that. Absolutely no problem. There are some people who can have, you know, one drink on a Saturday and then not even think about I'm gonna drink for three weeks. Or maybe they'll, you know, the maybe they have a, I don't know, a glass of champagne, a wedding? And then if there isn't another wedding for a year, who cares? It's just not there. It's a slow thing for them. It's not It's not an issue. Right? So they, their answer to that question would be no. But there's a huge number of people who when you say, be honest, Could your life be better physically and emotionally without the booze? Immediately? It's hell yes. And they're the people that I really believe, need the straight talking because I needed it. And no one ever gave it to me. No, doctor, no practitioner, no healer, no friend ever said to me, You know what? Life is absolutely amazing without this toxic drug. And let's not sugarcoat it, on account of it is and is responsible for 200 different illnesses, and God knows how many cancers and as you get older, it Episode 1 Page 7 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.aiwill affect you and for women, particularly, you know, you're thinking of trying to rock the menopause. Well, not with alcohol, you won't, you know, you're thinking of dealing with it with anxiety while you're going to just load in the antidepressants, are you going to check the drinking levels first, you know, and on and on. So I do think we need two sides of the of the coin, as it were, we need to know the logic, we need the logical piece the facts around our core, which I was never given. And I was so I mean, I look back I find a little bit incredulous, actually, that relatively bright person, definitely knowing everything about natural health and well being. And yeah, I had linkers on when it came to our call. I just used to love it. When I read those pieces in the press that said, or glass of red wine is good for your heart. Of course, I wouldn't read on to the bottom of the piece where it says, you know, must be in moderation and don't drink every day, though. Forget that they're telling me it was good for me. Perfect. I just had blinkers on. It was a total disconnect. So I do think that people need to be reminded of the actual truth and the actual facts. Okay. But then in addition, my take on it all is yes, please get the facts. But here's the much more important bit. The motivation, the inspiration, life is so much better without any no one ever told me that? Probably because they didn't know. It's not their fault. They didn't know. 23:02 And, you know, it makes me think of what you said in your TED Talk. And I've heard it before from john Hari, who talks about the opposite of addiction is connection. You know what, that has always really stuck with me. And yet, the really interesting thing is people think that the connection is through alcohol, right? 23:25 Yes, I know. Well, because alcohol for some of us has been our longest relationship. And we actually think of alcohol as half our friend. How sad is that? Really, really, it's sad and empty. And we managed to have these conversations with ourselves. So Oh, you know, I'll get through this. If I just have my you know, and it's, you know, the addictive voice is a real thing. It's a real thing. And I was just fascinated when I came across studies of the addictive voice It was first, the term was first coined by this us social worker called jack trim pay, wrote this groundbreaking book, it was so ahead of his time, called rational recovery. And he identifies the addictive voice. Not everyone has it. Not everyone has it. And that's why you need connection with someone who understands I, there wasn't anyone I could tell, I thought I was going nuts. I remember saying to therapists or practitioners, I've got a voice in my head. It tells me to go and finish the bottle of wine. I don't even want any more wine. But the voice tells me to go and have it and I do. I'm worried I'm worried about myself. And short of telling me you know that maybe I had some kind of entity and you know, there was some spiritual cleansing needed. Nobody knew what to say to me. Because I didn't have it. But some of us do. Right? But the good news is you can work with it and tame it and get rid of it. Just like you can get rid of your limiting beliefs. And of course, a lot of these things are Episode 1 Page 8 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.aiyou know, very connected. It comes down to, you know, recognizing that you can change, you can change, you can go after what you want. But you have to catch sight of that better life. 25:15 Absolutely. I, he talks about another thing that I guess I'd like to hear your opinion on, because it always struck me as so important to hear that sometimes we do these things because we can't stand to be present in our own life. 25:31 Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Well, yes, exactly. That's, that's what I was saying about this, the fact that we don't, we don't feel comfortable with our own feelings. If we don't, you know, if an emotion is a happy, pleasant one, beautiful, bring it on. But if it's anything other than that, we want to numb out straightaway. And it's this thing feedback cycle, you know, we have this a thought. And if the thought is uncomfortable, or we're feeling stressed, or anxious, or fearful, or frustrated, or jealous, whatever that emotion is, it's what feeling do we really want, you know, we want to feel better. And then immediately, our unconscious mind tells us, Oh, I know how you can do that. You can reach for a drink that will take the edge off everything. And so we were on autopilot. And what we have to do, when we choose to stop drinking, at least in the early stages, it gets much easier. But in the early stages, we have to actually be fully present, and put the pause and actually put the pause in and take a break. take a pause and ask yourself, what's really going on? What write down the thought, what, what is it I really want here. And there's that lovely acronym halt, which stands for hungry, angry, lonely, tired. And you know what, you'll be amazed how many times that sorts out for you. So when you have a craving to have a glass of wine, or whatever your alcohol is, ask yourself is actually that I'm hungry? Often we are. Often we've just dipped our blood sugar levels so low, we just need proper food. We don't need alcohol at all, just proper food, you know, am I angry? That's all the stuff we've been talking about is it actually just that someone's made us really furious or irritated or we've had a ridiculously mad day or you know, we just frustrated in which case, there are many other ways of dealing with anger, that's going to be far healthier than reaching for for booze, you know, which is a depressant that's not, you know, let's admit that it is a depressant. So if you are fearful or feeling down, it will make you feel worse. Am I lonely, that comes back to the connection. Again, that's a big one, you can be lonely, even if you have people around you, if you if you don't have the you know, somebody that connects with you and your level. And then the fourth 1am I tired. And again, I remember that I used to carry on working and then I'd be craving a glass of wine. So I'd go and have a glass of wine that will give me second wind that I could keep working for another three hours. I mean, how ridiculous if you tired go to bed. You know, in the early weeks, I just say treats after some, you know, lovely PJs, and a scented candle and a gratitude journal and go to bed, whatever the hell time to cares. Episode 1 Page 9 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.ai28:16 I love it. It's so many great recommendations. And just I think this is such an important topic for women to hear it's one we don't talk about enough. And while it's true, what do you just while we wrap up here, I just want to ask you about any other key takeaways that you'd want our listeners to know any recommendations? 28:43 Yeah, I can tell you that my mantra is keep the ritual, change the ingredients. And that's such an important one. And the reason is that, you know, if I'd have been trying to do this, certainly 15 years ago, maybe even 10 years ago, it would have been much harder. And the reason is that, you know, most of us do have your you talk about sort of denoting the end of the week or the end of the busy day. And we do have little rituals that we enjoy, whether that's sitting with a partner or a friend and, and having a drink, whether it's pouring a drink while we do the cooking, whether it's Sunday lunch that always has to have a drink with it, whether it's having a bath with a candle and a glass of wine, whatever those rituals are. Many of us have them and they associations are with alcohol right now. My take on this is don't do everything at once. Don't Don't stop all your rituals, because if you do your little inner toddler, your unconscious mind will say well now this is absolute rubbish. You everyone's having their lovely sparkly drinks and I've got this crappy cup of tea, or this warm orange juice. I don't think so. This is not good. I don't feel good. And then you will immediately say, Well, I'm worth it. I deserve more and you'll reach for alcohol. So the answer is prep ahead and have exactly the same ritual, beautiful glasses, you know, nice healthy snacks if you want them, but have something alcohol free in your glass. And this is now so much easier than it was 10 years ago. I mean, in the UK, the alcohol free drinks market has gone bonkers. I mean, everything from artisan tonics through computers, which are now in Canada, you've always been way ahead of us for years. But in the UK, we're just about catching on kombucha and through to alcohol free fizzes, beautiful, beautiful fairs. Amazing botanical spirits. I mean, amazing. And so you can make incredible cocktails, alcohol free cocktails. So the choice is huge. So don't do that depriving yourself thing, the amount of clutter. I've had clients one to one clients. And I'll say that, right, let's talk about how you're going to prep them for your evening ahead. Because you do need your sober toolkit, you do have to put your prep in. Because if you don't, you'll come to six o'clock in the wine, which we'll have a word and then you'll be gone again. So do you prep? And they'll often say to me, Oh, no, it's fine. I'm good. I'm good with with tea, or I'm good with water. I'm happy with water. You know what I don't think you will be for long, you will start to feel deprived. It's perfectly natural and normal to want a grown up nice alcohol free drink. What's wrong with wanting a nice grown up drink? Nothing wrong with that. It's perfectly fine. Of course, the kids many of the kids want their coke and their orange juice. adults don't we don't want to sweet sugary drink, right? We want something that's more grown up in inverted commas. Not sweet, you know a little bit more, you know, artists and taste and, and there are millions of them. And if you're worried that oh, well, if I have an alcohol free beer, it might make me want Episode 1 Page 10 of 11 Transcribed by https://otter.aibeer. Well have a botanical Spirit then. Because it's it's not about what, you know what's in the glass. It's about the feelings that it brings you. So it's about the you know, the fact that we pour if I were to offer you I don't know if wines your thing, but you know, and I work with people for whom? A glass of Sauvignon Blanc or something? Is that their thing? And that Oh, wow. You know, wouldn't that be amazing? And they've built it up in their mind as this fabulous thing they're going to have at the end of the day. And then, you know, I kind of make a joke with him. And I say well, okay, so you know, you really you really want this this glass of soda, but I really need it right now. And then I say Well, yeah, okay, no problem. You can have it. Oh, I've only got an old bottle. It's been in the garbage a few months. So it's kind of warm. And I'm not sure if he I'm sure it'll be absolutely fine. But I don't know of any classes. But I've got a paper cup that I had at lunchtime the other day. It's a bit cracked. It's a bit cracked, but I think I can keep the whites not a problem here. Go here, go here, go. So you've got this warm, warm booze. It's been in the garriage for six years in a cracked paper cup. Do you still want it? I don't think so. Because it never was the alcohol you wanted. It was the feeling it was the associations. So what you want is the nice cold quality. So you think liquid in a nice glass served in a nice environment. You don't actually want to sit on a park bench and swig something really nasty from the bottle. You never did. So it's not the alcohol. 33:26 I love that I love the idea of keeping the ritual, but just change the liquid, or? Yeah, that's amazing. That's such a great way to think about it. Thank you so much for coming on the H sister podcast today. I really appreciate it. Where could our listeners find out more about your work? 33:51 Yeah, so if they just go to the sober club calm. That's the website where there's some blog posts and competitions and various things. And then within that there's a kind of membership portal if anyone wants to join our community, I mean, both with the sober club and with the book with happy, healthy, sober. It's really aimed at someone who is day one sober, curious, or sober six years, it really doesn't matter. And I know people think well, how can you cater for both? And you really can because my take on it is that, you know Yes, I'm going to inspire you and encourage you and teach you in inverted commas how to ditch the booze. But once you've done that part, then it's when everything else starts to open up. So the book includes just masses of content around all the other lifestyle changes that you're going to go on to do maybe not all at once. And the sober club is exactly the same. You know, we have expert guests, some eve
About the show
The Age Sister Podcast is where Kate talks with an eclectic mix of guests about issues related to being a woman in midlife.
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